Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

The Eternity Ring (July 1946); The Cage (August 1946); Sunflower (Aug/Sept 1946)

Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby Lynnedean » Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:18 pm

Image Query: In The Eternity Ring, there are several instances of the characters speaking in Polish, but, irritatingly, the English translation is not given on screen, and it's not included in the subtitles, either. Does anyone know what Hoffman says after he gives an envelope to the man he calls Tomasz, and what Tomasz says in reply? From Hoffman's manner, it appears to be a warning, but is it? Not to provide translation is very bad practice on the part of the FW production company.

:-? Quibble: Tomasz goes to tell Hoffman about having seen policemen at his house, but how did he know where to find the man? He surely wouldn't have known that Hoffman was having dinner with the Frasers that night, or, for that matter, where the Frasers lived.

:-? Quibble: There are high metal railings in front of the houses on the street on which the Frasers live, but weren't all metal railings up and down the country cut down in 1940 with the intention of the material being used for the war effort, e.g. making of weapons. (It certainly happened in my little home town on Tyneside; hadn't occured to me before, but I'm now wondering how Foyle managed to retain the railings in front of his home in Hastings.) Incidentally, by all accounts the exercise was a total waste of time and metal, as the metal was apparently found to be unsuitable for the intended purposes, and so was simply dumped - e.g. in the London area, it was thrown into the Thames. Secret London: the mystery of London’s World War II railings
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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby starlight » Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:28 pm

Lynnedean wrote:
:-? Quibble: There are high metal railings in front of the houses on the street on which the Frasers live, but weren't all metal railings up and down the country cut down in 1940 with the intention of the material being used for the war effort, e.g. making of weapons. (It certainly happened in my little home town on Tyneside; hadn't occured to me before, but I'm now wondering how Foyle managed to retain the railings in front of his home in Hastings.) Incidentally, by all accounts the exercise was a total waste of time and metal, as the metal was apparently found to be unsuitable for the intended purposes, and so was simply dumped - e.g. in the London area, it was thrown into the Thames. Secret London: the mystery of London’s World War II railings


Yep. Certainly knew that about the railings. Wicked waste, wasn't it?

Don't panic! Foyle's railings were there for safety. If they had been removed, passers-by would have broken their necks falling into his basement.

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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby hazeleyes57 » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:45 pm

My grandparents' railings were collected (Enfield, London) for 'Spitfires', although I subsequently learned that they were dropped in the Thames. My dad was of the opinion that they were all collected as a morale-boosting 'we're all in it together' exercise.
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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby starlight » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:50 pm

They sawed the (decorative) railings off the wall outside my mum's house. We still lived in the same house when I was a child, and it was the same all along our street - walls topped with curved bricks, and stubs of ironwork detectable between them.

The Thames must be remarkably ferrous still.

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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby starlight » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:16 pm

Not much help Lynne, but the second word Hoffman speaks is "sytuacja" (situation). As for the rest, search me. :noidea:

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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby amiga » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:47 pm

Lynnedean wrote:[ Not to provide translation is very bad practice on the part of the FW production company.


Annoyingly, this is not only a bad practice by FW production, but many other shows. Watching Homeland last night and there were quite a few conversations in Spanish without any translation. Surely, they are saying something we might be interested in.

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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby jewell » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:32 pm

amiga wrote:
Lynnedean wrote:[ Not to provide translation is very bad practice on the part of the FW production company.


Annoyingly, this is not only a bad practice by FW production, but many other shows. Watching Homeland last night and there were quite a few conversations in Spanish without any translation. Surely, they are saying something we might be interested in.

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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby amiga » Wed Oct 16, 2013 12:50 am

jewell wrote:
amiga wrote:Annoyingly, this is not only a bad practice by FW production, but many other shows. Watching Homeland last night and there were quite a few conversations in Spanish without any translation. Surely, they are saying something we might be interested in.
Amiga

A name like "Amiga" and you no hable? :whistling:


Things may not always be what they appear to be :lol: :lol:

While I do understand some Spanish, there are times when I can barely understand English on TV, American or British. Everyone talks too fast, mumbles, music plays in the background, added to the fact that maybe my hearing is not what it used to be :lol: so understanding rapid fire dialog in Spanish would be just about impossible for me.

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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby starlight » Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:38 am

Update on the Polish bit. I asked my friend (a Pole) and his reply was:

Voice 1 (Accent is dire, cannot make it out): <Something> <Something> Situation
Voice 2 (Polish): Thank you for helping


LOL. :rofl: But he is going to ask opinion on missing words from his wife tonight.

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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby starlight » Fri Oct 18, 2013 4:03 pm

starlight wrote:Update on the Polish bit. I asked my friend (a Pole) and his reply was:

Voice 1 (Accent is dire, cannot make it out): <Something> <Something> Situation
Voice 2 (Polish): Thank you for helping


LOL. :rofl: But he is going to ask opinion on missing words from his wife tonight.

Starlight


Polish wife of Pole also failed to identify the missing words of Hoffman's.

Sorry. :sad:

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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby Lynnedean » Fri Oct 18, 2013 5:46 pm

starlight wrote:Polish wife of Pole also failed to identify the missing words of Hoffman's.

Really? That boggles the mind! If someone whose first language is Polish can't make out what Hoffman's saying, does it mean that the actor is dismally bad at accents, or that he wasn't attempting to speak Polish at all, but was actually just muttering gibberish, hoping he was making it sound like Polish? Whatever was going on, what on earth was the director thinking about in letting it pass?

Thanks for the attempt to solve the puzzle, Starlight. At least we know why the line wasn't translated on screen or in the subtitles! But I'm very cross about it, y'know; it should never have been allowed to pass.
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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby starlight » Fri Oct 18, 2013 6:12 pm

We need Barbara Hicks on the case to spot a few more Poles for extra opinions. :D
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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby Samfan » Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:08 pm

starlight wrote:We need Barbara Hicks on the case to spot a few more Poles for extra opinions. :D


Groan!! :lol:
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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby jewell » Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:09 pm

starlight wrote:We need Barbara Hicks on the case to spot a few more Poles for extra opinions. :D

Good Golly! :yikes:
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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby dcfoylefan » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:44 pm

Hee.
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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby Englishfan » Sun Feb 23, 2014 5:37 pm

I just rewatched this episode and loved it even more than the first two times. I have to watch it alone and in a quiet place w/my eyes on the TV at all times! It is complicated!!!!

I wish I had rewatched it like this earlier to truly appreciate the writing, acting, and intricate details. Being an American, the more I see the same episode, the more I "get" the accent.

BTW, is Mr. Kitchen's accent his own in Pern vs FW?

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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby Lynnedean » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:14 pm

Englishfan wrote:BTW, is Mr. Kitchen's accent his own in Pern vs FW?

Englishfan, you'll hear Mr K's own accent in this very brief interview, which was included in a documentary on the DVD of The Last Contract... Michael Kitchen interview recorded during making of The Last Contract

In the commentary on the DVD release of To Play the King, there's a reference to the way Michael Kitchen speaks off screen. Remember how he sounded when he was playing the King? Well, apparently, that's the way he talks in real life ...

    The actor Ian Richardson said, "A lot of people thought that my dear colleague Michael Kitchen, who plays the King in these four episodes … they all thought he was doing an imitation of some august person, but in actual fact, that's the way Michael talks anyway."
    At that point, the screenwriter of TPTK Andrew Davies and the producer Ken Riddington chuckled. Andrew Davies said, "Oh, no, that is him, that is Michael." And Ken Riddington said, "That's the reason we cast him ..."
So he doesn't talk as he does in Pern - that's just for the character. He actually talks as does in To Play the King.
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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby starlight » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:35 pm

:lol: I just love how that makes him more Prince Charles than Charlie-boy himself!
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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby Englishfan » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:57 pm

Lynnedean wrote:So he doesn't talk as he does in Pern - that's just for the character. He actually talks as does in To Play the King.


GREAT! New excuse to watch To Play the King again! And Ian Richardson meant that it was his accent, not his vocab that is the reason they cast him?

Is that YOUR accent, Lynne? aren't you from the same area? My geography is almost as bad as my memory of such details, but I thought you mentioned that you were from the same area as Mr. Kitchen was originally.

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Re: Eternity Ring queries & quibbles

Postby Lynnedean » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:21 pm

Ian richardson meant his accent, Englishfan.

And, no, it's certainly not my accent. I'm not from Mr K's neck of the woods; I'm from the other end of the country. I was born in the North East of England, the area called Tyneside (comprised of the counties either side of the River Tyne). I'm what's known as a Geordie - it's there under my avatar. My accent is the same as that of Owen Springer in Reckless, and that of Lewis in Inspector Morse or the spin-off Lewis - the actors Robson Green and Kevin Whately, who play those roles, are both from the North East. (I live in the Midlands now, and I'm constantly homesick. :sad: )
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