SPOILERS for Sunflower

The Eternity Ring (July 1946); The Cage (August 1946); Sunflower (Aug/Sept 1946)

Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby bee » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:05 pm

Full episode on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Sni3k8U8uU

And yes, it's Sunflower, not The Cage!
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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby Sunshine » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:10 pm

Englishfan wrote:I have one more possible storyline for the Hastings series:

6. Sam and CF, who is in the backseat, are in the opening scene. CF lightens up and sits up straight as the car slows. A beautiful woman gets in with him in the back and Adam with Sam in the front. Sam repeats, "Where to, Sir?" And he says, "Home, Sam, home." And thus begins the next series.

Englishfan



:lol: :lol: :lol:
Just looked over the chapter on "Horse Racing and Illegal Rambling."

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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby starlight » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:17 pm

SUNFLOWER IS UP (Thanks Amiga! :thankyou: )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Sni3k8U8uU

(NB: in spite of label, on YouTube this is NOT Ep 2)
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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby Englishfan » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:34 pm

Lynnedean wrote:
Occurs to me that "unrelenting grimness" is a phrase which also describes Foyle now. :foyle4:



Isn't that sad that the "grimness" also describes Foyle?

My hope is that it's the job and he'll be whisked to Hastings where he'll lighten up and remember who he is. I've set the potential scene for that lightening. A little over-kill as it might take that to balance things after the grey of Sunflower.

But I DID enjoy Sunflower despite the grimness. Just prefer the sun. Ashame to call the "sun"flower episode grey. I realize the reason.....just noting the sharp contrast.

I found it odd that there were no squeals and "mommy/daddy" names shared when Sam told Adam that she was pregnant. After struggling to start a family, I would think they would be jumping over sofas in excitement. Too reserved?

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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby amiga » Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:45 pm

I would have liked to see Sam tell CF that she's pregnant. She did share her fear of infertility with him so it would have been a nice moment if we could have seen her tell him. Lots of nice moments missing from these episodes.

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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby starlight » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:02 pm

amiga wrote:I would have liked to see Sam tell CF that she's pregnant. She did share her fear of infertility with him so it would have been a nice moment if we could have seen her tell him. Lots of nice moments missing from these episodes.

Amiga


This was certainly a noticeable omission, but perhaps a deliberate one considering how the Foyle/Sam relationship has developed this series....

As always, in my skewniverse, things boil down to Foyle and Sam. :whistling:

With her divided loyalties, feeding information to Adam, Sam has become Foyle’s Achilles heel (not that she wasn’t this, to some extent, emotionally, before) .

In this episode, she has graduated from using information that falls into her hands by chance, to actively digging for it. And she has done so without telling Foyle. Fortunately for her, Foyle is rapier-sharp, picks up on the Gibson thread when confronted by his boss, and covers for her without blinking an eyelid. There’s no question he will always cover for her, but Sam is playing a dangerous game by keeping information to herself and not telling Foyle what she is up to.

Sam can do Foyle untold damage, because, man of integrity that he is, he accepts that she will follow her conscience, and, rather than warning her off, simply warns her to be careful. Effectively, he’s putting himself in her hands. One slip from Sam, and they’re both fried.

It’s a case of “be careful what you wish for”. Foyle wanted to be in intelligence. Turns out it’s dirtier work than being in the Force (well duh!). He wanted Sam on his team, but she comes with Adam and an independent conscience that drives her to take risks.

I can see an interesting parallel in character-relationships here: Sam is to Foyle as Foyle is to Pierce. The relationship with the subordinate both strengthens and weakens the immediate superior in that hierarchy. Sam, though, is proving to be a loose cannon, which is an added dilemma for Foyle. Whereas Foyle would only damage Pierce following a considered decision, Sam could easily damage Foyle by accident.

I am very disappointed that this important dynamic between the three main characters has been so neglected. The writers made such an interesting start in Episode 1, then ruined it by giving the main character-pairings only limited screen-time. :rantblue:
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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby Englishfan » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:31 pm

starlight wrote:Sam can do Foyle untold damage, because, man of integrity that he is, he accepts that she will follow her conscience, and, rather than warning her off, simply warns her to be careful. Effectively, he’s putting himself in her hands. One slip from Sam, and they’re both fried.

It’s a case of “be careful what you wish for”. Foyle wanted to be in intelligence. Turns out it’s dirtier work than being in the Force (well duh!). He wanted Sam on his team, but she comes with Adam and an independent conscience that drives her to take risks.

I can see an interesting parallel in character-relationships here: Sam is to Foyle as Foyle is to Pierce. The relationship with the subordinate both strengthens and weakens the immediate superior in that hierarchy. Sam, though, is proving to be a loose cannon, which is an added dilemma for Foyle. Whereas Foyle would only damage Pierce following a considered decision, Sam could easily damage Foyle by accident.


This is thoughtful and accurate re-cap of what we saw.

And doesn't it give a writer plenty on which to build for Series 9?

Thank-you, Starlight.

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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby bee » Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:37 am

It's fun when celebrities tweet about FW:

Samantha Bond‏@SamanthaBond7 Apr
Fabulous episode of #FoylesWar Great script #AnthonyHorowitz Beautifully directed by #AndyHay Great performances esp #CharlesAitken

Dermot O'Leary Verified account‏@radioleary
This new 'Foyles War' is even better than the old one. Lets get some cocoa on the firm and kick back #rockandroll

P.S. I have sent the link of the FW theme plugged video to Mr. O'Leary, so a second career opening might be in sight :wink:
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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby starlight » Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:35 am

bee wrote:It's fun when celebrities tweet about FW:

Samantha Bond‏@SamanthaBond7 Apr
Fabulous episode of #FoylesWar Great script #AnthonyHorowitz Beautifully directed by #AndyHay Great performances esp #CharlesAitken


Ms Bond.
51, intelligent voice, copper hair, pain-filled eyes, 1.69m (just shorter than MK).
Give her a part in the next series.
See how the other Sam likes it... :cool:

Yes, Charles Aitken was good, but get a load of Lars Eidinger - how tall is that guy? Answer 1.90m (6ft 3). I swear he had to duck to leave his digs. And the eyes! The eyes!
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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby bee » Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:52 am

starlight wrote:Yes, Charles Aitken was good, but get a load of Lars Eidinger - how tall is that guy? Answer 1.90m (6ft 3). I swear he had to duck to leave his digs. And the eyes! The eyes!

I agree about Charles Aitken and I wouldn't be surprised if, just like Andrew Scott, he'd suddenly pop up everywhere...

Regarding Lars Eidinger, to be honest I had never heard of him, but then I watch much more British, Scandinavian and American than German stuff. Actually, he seems to be quite well known, including in the theatre scene. I'll keep an eye out now. Anyway I was glad that they picked a German actor and not a British actor with a dodgy Geman (French, Italian...) accent. Having said that his accent sounded a bit forced sometimes. I guess that most younger actors are pretty fluent in English these days, probably enhances their job chances quite a bit.

Comimg back to twitter, some people spotted a "tardis" in the Sunflower episode, apparently something to do with Dr. Who. What's a tardis? :puzzled:
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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby Lynnedean » Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:12 am

bee wrote:Comimg back to twitter, some people spotted a "tardis" in the Sunflower episode, apparently something to do with Dr. Who. What's a tardis? :puzzled:

To give the character - and the TV show - the correct title, it's Doctor Who (no abbreviation). The series celebrates its 50th Anniversary this year (I have a terrific calendar commemorating it). The Doctor is a Time Lord who travels through time and space in something called the Tardis (Time and Relevant Dimension in Space), which, on the outside, looks like one of the small old-fashioned police telephone boxes that used to stand on many British streets before policemen could communicate via radio, but on the inside is huge, and on several levels.
Here's the lowdown on the series ... BBC website: Doctor Who and also Wikipeida: Doctor Who
And here's info about the Tardis ... Wikipedia: The Tardis

Trivia: The Doctor changes from time to time - the character "regenerates" into a new Doctor as part of the storyline. David Tennant - Theo Howard in A Lesson In Murder - has played one of the Doctors (and was one of the best, I reckon) and David Troughton - Michael Bennet in Among the Few - is the son of actor Patrick Troughton, who played the second Doctor Who in the late 60s (my favourite of all), and has also appeared in an episode of the sci-fi series himself.

PS: Not going to tell you where the police box appears - have fun spotting it. :D
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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby jewell » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:52 am

Lynnedean wrote:One thing in the plot of the third episode has me itching for an explanation. After Foyle and Sam question Gibson and then leave him in his garden, the man goes into his house, and makes a 'phone call. We then see secret service officials at a PBX switchboard noting the making of the call and about to listen in. What? Did Foyle arrange for Gibson's line to be monitored on the off-chance he'd make an incriminating call? As we'd say on Tyneside: hadaway and jump! Also, as an ex-GPO telephonist (GPO = main UK telephone network) I'm intrigued as to how they were monitoring the line.


As I remember, Lynne, when Sir Alec confronts Foyle about why he is investigating Gibson he mentions that Foyle has also been wiretapping his phone.

Sam's a nervy little thing, ain't she?

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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby Lynnedean » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:22 am

It's just me being picky, Jewell, but the timing of it, and the way it appeared to be being done, bothers me. What Gibson was suspected of doing wasn't the sort of thing that MI5 would be concerned about, so Foyle was only helping Sam "on the side" as it were, the copper in him unable to keep his nose out, and he was in the first stage of making inquiries. I just can't believe that, at that point in the investigation, he would have arranged the monitoring of the line; it was, to my mind, both premature and OTT. I have to put it down to it being simply a plot contrivance to enable Foyle quickly to solve the sub-plot. On top of that the method of monitoring seemed odd to me; I'd like to know how it was supposedly being done.
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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby jewell » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:26 pm

No, Lynne, Sam arranged the wiretap. Our Man knew nothing about it.

That's why I say she's gotten pretty nervy and frankly, I don't like it.

Sam was always a stalwart, good citizen, girl scout type. Yes, she made blunders but they were good-hearted, well meaning, non law breaking blunders.

The stuff she's up to now... I really don't see Foyle putting up with it, at all. And they've written him all "be careful, Sam" when he should have been tearing into her.

Anyhoo, more Foyle to enjoy, speculate on, complain about. What could be better?

Jewell
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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby starlight » Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:17 pm

jewell wrote:No, Lynne, Sam arranged the wiretap. Our Man knew nothing about it.

That's why I say she's gotten pretty nervy and frankly, I don't like it.

Sam was always a stalwart, good citizen, girl scout type. Yes, she made blunders but they were good-hearted, well meaning, non law breaking blunders.

The stuff she's up to now... I really don't see Foyle putting up with it, at all. And they've written him all "be careful, Sam" when he should have been tearing into her.

Anyhoo, more Foyle to enjoy, speculate on, complain about. What could be better?

Jewell


Preee Cisely. See my earlier post. X
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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby historianheidi » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:11 pm

Having rewatched the episode again-and liking it more on second viewing, Sam's behaviour re the Gibson subplot is the only thing that still really jars with me.

It just seems so extreme and out of character for her to do that. I can understand her wanting to help Adam but not to the extent of effectively breaking the law over something comparatively minor.I could only just about see her doing what she did as a last resort if Adam's or CF's life was in danger-and even then it would be at a push.

I know she's changed a lot in the last year, but I think for me that took her to the point of being almost completely unrecognisable from the Sam we got to know in the wartime episodes.
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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby Lynnedean » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:37 pm

Of course, you're right, Jewell, Sam arranged the wire tap. But that makes it worse! Did she say it had been ordered by Foyle? (Sorry, I can't remember exactly how it came about and I don't have time to find the scene in the ep.) If she didn't do it in Foyle's name, then I don't see how she could have done it at all, because she wouldn't have had the authority to order it herself.
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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby Englishfan » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:42 pm

historianheidi wrote:I know she's changed a lot in the last year, but I think for me that took her to the point of being almost completely unrecognisable from the Sam we got to know in the wartime episodes.


Begs the question as to what her role can be in the NEW SERIES :thankyou: (doesn't that phrase, NEW SERIES," sound wonderful?!).

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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby Samfan » Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:58 pm

Englishfan wrote:(doesn't that phrase, NEW SERIES," sound wonderful?!).

Englishfan


Yes, it does sound wonderful!!

Aren't we impatient? :lol: We just got done with a new series, and now we want another right away!! (yes, we do...) :D

:obsessed:

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Re: SPOILERS for Sunflower

Postby jewell » Wed Apr 10, 2013 7:13 pm

Lynnedean wrote:Of course, you're right, Jewell, Sam arranged the wire tap. But that makes it worse! Did she say it had been ordered by Foyle? (Sorry, I can't remember exactly how it came about and I don't have time to find the scene in the ep.) If she didn't do it in Foyle's name, then I don't see how she could have done it at all, because she wouldn't have had the authority to order it herself.

They don't spell it all out in the episode but I was left believing that Sam had arranged it in Foyle's name.

Not Sam-like at all and pretty bloody nervy. (I keep wanting to use a ruder term than nervy but it's rude and not anatomically correct when discussing a woman)

Not good.

J
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