Endeavour

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Re: Endeavour

Postby amiga » Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:01 am

Loved it. Agree that Shaun Evans does look older. He's matured.

Really made me miss our Mr. Foyle :sad:

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Re: Endeavour

Postby Lynnedean » Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:06 pm

Bit puzzled at Strange's sudden advancement from uniformed constable to sergeant in the CID. Would have thought he'd have had to transfer to CID as as a detective constable first and then in time apply for promotion to sergeant in that branch. Anyone know what the standard procedure of advancement through the ranks of the police force would have been in the 60s?

That apart, what a load of blinkin' nonsense the third episode of series 3 was. Talk about a far-fetched plot! What was it trying to do - outdo Midsomer Murders? And the characterisations now seem to be going to pot, most notably that of Bright. Didn't think I'd ever be saying this, but I'm missing the tension which used to exist between particular characters but has now completely gone; it used to irritate me, but I have to admit that this series is definitely lacking something without it! Also - and sorry, this is a bit of a spoiler for those who haven't caught up with the latest episode yet - the writers appear to have become obsessed with the main characters saving each other's lives!

Endeavour started so well, but where the heck is it going?
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Re: Endeavour

Postby amiga » Mon Jan 18, 2016 4:37 am

Lynnedean wrote:..... And the characterisations now seem to be going to pot, most notably that of Bright. Didn't think I'd ever be saying this, but I'm missing the tension which used to exist between particular characters but has now completely gone; it used to irritate me, but I have to admit that this series is definitely lacking something without it! Also - and sorry, this is a bit of a spoiler for those who haven't caught up with the latest episode yet - the writers appear to have become obsessed with the main characters saving each other's lives!Endeavour started to well, but where the heck is it going?


I usually give tv shows a lot of leeway, but this episode was over the top. I agree about the tension between the characters. It definitely added something. It's become a bit of a love fest. A little concerned where they will take one of the story lines.

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Re: Endeavour

Postby Lynnedean » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:14 am

amiga wrote:A little concerned where they will take one of the story lines.

I know what you're referring to, Amiga. I'm concerned about it, too, and more than a little. I yelled at my telly last night! If it's just an attempt by the writers to bring back tension of some kind, it's certainly working, but it's a helluva way to do it and it's definitely not appreciated.
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Re: Endeavour

Postby Lynnedean » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:23 pm

SPOILERS ...

The final episode of the latest series proved even more infuriating than the penultimate. What the heck were the writers playing at? Morse was in mortal danger again; so was a member of Thursday's family; and the Chief Super threw all caution out of the window and put himself immediately in harm's way, too. And of course the last two would have been mincemeat if Morse hadn't intervened even while he was himself in precarious cirumstances. It was all so absurd! With regard to Bright, it's been difficult enough to accept the overnight change in his character that now has him melting into a little blob of butter when dealing with Morse or Thursday, but now there's been another major change - from the beginning of the series, we were left in no doubt that he was strictly a man of the book, yet in this episode he suddenly dispensed with the whole police procedure manual to step out into the open and remonstrate with an armed robber who was holding hostages in a bank. Not only that, in his office, he gave his detective inspector a revolver on the quiet! What? There were continuity errors, too: ordinary coppers wouldn't have been allowed to use firearms, but even the young woman police constable fairly new to the force was threatening someone with one, and a uniformed constable wouldn't have addressed a detective sergeant as "sir" (the same obvious error was also let pass in one of the FW eps). Oh, I give up!

Quite frankly, although I'd miss Anton Lesser and Roger Allam because we don't get enough of them on TV as it is, I wouldn't care if no further episodes of Endeavour were made if they were going to follow the pattern now set.
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Re: Endeavour

Postby Lynette » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:08 am

Are they using different writers, Lynne? Do you think that's the problem?
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Re: Endeavour

Postby Lynnedean » Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:11 pm

Only one writer for the whole thing, Lynette - Russell Lewis. Credit reads "written and devised by". I usually refer to "writers", because there may be others in the background who contribute on some way. Colin Dexter receives a credit, but only as the originator of the Morse character on which Endeavour is based.

So it's all down to Russell Lewis appearing to be short on ideas, and also doing a Horowitz - i.e. not taking into account particular things he's written into earlier scripts. There's been a different director on each of the episodes, apart from Colm McCarthy who directed two including the pilot. Who knows why so many different directors were brought in, but it must surely be responsible in some measure for the changes in the way the characters are played (compare later eps of FW with the several early ones directed by Jeremy Silberston), but I'm not sure how far they can go in making script changes. What I don't understand is how Russell Lewis, and the others involved in the making of Endeavour, don't see that the similarity in the storylines is making them predictable and rather silly.

There will be those who loved the latest shenanigans, but I see that one online reviewer has this morning summed up my view of it … "Coda, the last episode in this third series, is Russell Lewis’s eighth screenplay for Endeavour. Alas, a better title would be Codswallop." The article is subtitled "The slow, lingering death of the Great British Crime Drama" and makes an interesting read. The Arts Desk review: Endeavour, Series 3 finale Note that the reviewer is wrong about the number of screenplays written by Russell Lewis - he's responsible for the lot, which is 13 including the pilot.

Meant to mention in my last post that I also think it was a big mistake to bring Strange into CID (and as a sergeant, which I still think odd). It was obviously done to build up the link with the original Morse (the Endeavour eps are peppered with in-house Morse and Lewis refs), but he replaced a character who was much more interesting. Axing a character will have saved the production company a few pennies, too, of course.

And something else ... I was surprised that Thursday's problem was resolved as easily as it was. Going on Russell Lewis's previously established pattern, he should have had Fred dramatically collapse in a dark, wet street, and the young Morse whip out a penkife and perform miraculous life-saving surgery on the spot by the light of a streetlamp, while Bright stood guard with a Kalashnikov to fend off any onlooker who might intervene. Mind you, Mr Lewis's solution was equally preposterous. I've heard the phrase "to spit bullets", but I didn't think it meant literally!
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Re: Endeavour

Postby amiga » Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:03 am

I don't pay as much attention to all the details like you do, Lynne, but I do agree with your comments on the episode and on the story lines. They seemed to go downhill with each episode. I kept saying, "What!?", to the TV. Almost turned it off after Strange's bullet miracle. I should have as there were more "What!?" to follow.

I really enjoyed the previous series. It's a shame they lost their way. I, too, would miss A. Lesser and R. Allum together, but like all good British actors, they will show up elsewhere (except for one MK :sad: ). R. Allum has 3 things coming up at some point, and A. Lesser is always in something, it seems.

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Re: Endeavour

Postby BookwormKate » Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:27 pm

I agree with you, Lynne! I enjoyed the first two series of Endeavour, but this series had me shaking my head the entire time. The plot lines felt as if they were all over the place! And the first episode was like watching a mashed up version of The Prestige and The Great Gatsby. It felt like the whole story had been put together from nicked bits of other films. The only things I very much enjoyed this series were Roger Allam and Shaun Evans. Their acting is good, even if the scripts are rather sub-par. Such a shame, really, as the detail paid to making it look good is well done.
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Re: Endeavour

Postby Wolesley » Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:10 am

Well.
Finally got to sit down and watch episode 3, and since I knew who the 'murderer' was, I just focused on how they built the plot and the tension of the investigation. I must say it was rather like watching an absurdist farce, with detective work thrown in.
They really had to stretch the story and the drama with a lot of 'filler' and needlessly drawn out moments.
And what of the bloodhounds? If taken seriously within the drama, the dogs they used must've had olfactory paralysis, not to smell what was skulking in the woods.
But if taken as a mild sendup of detective shows, it was mildly enjoyable. Makes me wonder if there had been comical sorts of episodes of the original Morse, that they were trying to recapture. It's been a while since I've watched any Morse.
However, taken as an episode of 'Endeavour,' which started so strongly in season one, this script was really quite a disappointment.
On to episode four. Wish me luck.

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Re: Endeavour

Postby Lynette » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:27 pm

Well, I haven't seen the new episodes of Endeavour yet, as it hasn't made it to PBS (ditto Lewis Season Nine).

But despite the fact that so many people -- both reviewers and our discerning audience hereabouts -- feel that the third series 'jumped the shark' (to use the American phrase), a fourth series has been commissioned:

http://www.itv.com/presscentre/press-releases/endeavour-will-return-itv

To use another old American idiom, "the opera ain't over until the fat lady sings" (this one, believe it or not, comes from professional basketball, but is oddly appropriate for the opera-loving Morse). And I guess the fat lady hasn't sung yet for Endeavour Morse.
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Re: Endeavour

Postby amiga » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:42 pm

In spite of the fact that they definitely jumped the shark on several occasions, I still enjoyed the series and really do like the characters, and the actors playing them. Glad it has been renewed. Hopefully, next time they won't jump quite so high. :smile:

Thanks.

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Re: Endeavour - SPOILER alert!!!

Postby Lynette » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:40 am

Okay, so Endeavour Season Three has finally made it to PBS. I've been looking forward to this since Mr. Selfridge ended back in April (despite the criticism here on the board), but after watching the first one hubby and I couldn't figure out if we were watching a genuine English murder mystery or a rewrite of The Great Gatsby.

The similarities of plot were ridiculously overdone: Morse, like Nick Carraway in the novel, is living in a humble cottage next to the 'vulgar pile' recently purchased by a handsome, charming social climber Mr. J. Bixby (Gatsby), a newcomer who throw extravagant parties, has made his fortune in mysterious (possibly criminal) ways, and who turns out in the end to be have invented his persona to hide his plebeian origins. Bixby is carrying a torch for a beautiful, vacuous young woman named Kay (read Daisy), who lives with her old-money, nasty husband in another mansion just across the lake. Mr Nasty Husband is having an affair on the side with a lower-class woman who dies violently after being hit by a car, like Myrtle in the novel. Kay even has a best friend who is a champion tennis player a la Jordan Baker (golf champion)!

Obviously the plot takes some other turns to fit in a murder or two, but the general structure is such a blatant knock-off that I felt like the subtitle should have been "with apologies to F. Scott Fitzgerald".
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Re: Endeavour

Postby Sunshine » Tue Jun 21, 2016 2:26 am

I agree that the issues of what happened to Morse and Thursday were resolved too neatly in the first episode. And while I like Shaun Evans as young Morse, he doesn't quite manage to live up to Alan Cumming's Masterpiece introduction, which had young Morse channeling into the Morse that John Thaw left his mark in.
Just looked over the chapter on "Horse Racing and Illegal Rambling."

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Re: Endeavour

Postby Lynnedean » Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:50 am

In March of this year, Anton Lesser was interviewed for the PBS website following the release of Series 3 of Endeavour. Interestingly, and rather amusingly, when asked about Chief Superintendent Bright's hostile attitude towards the young Morse, even he couldn't explain it ... "Do you know, even though we've done three series, I find it difficult to say what it is specifically that causes the friction ..."

Mr L obviously isn't a follower of Stanislavski. :D

PBS Masterpiece: Anton Lesser interview
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Re: Endeavour

Postby Sunshine » Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:04 pm

I've just started watching the third episode. I'm about a half hour in, but is there anything tying the Hathaway character to DI Hathaway in "Lewis?"

And how interesting to watch a Thursday-Bright scene right after watching the FW "Eagle Day"episode. :lol:
Just looked over the chapter on "Horse Racing and Illegal Rambling."

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Re: Endeavour

Postby Lynnedean » Fri Jul 08, 2016 3:54 pm

Sunshine wrote:I've just started watching the third episode. I'm about a half hour in, but is there anything tying the Hathaway character to DI Hathaway in "Lewis?"

And how interesting to watch a Thursday-Bright scene right after watching the FW "Eagle Day"episode.

Yes, there's a tie-in, Sunshine. This is from a review of the episode on a website called Den of Geek! (great name) ...

    "One of the incidental pleasures of watching Endeavour is, of course, the presence of nods to the established continuity of Inspector Morse and Lewis. Prey features perhaps the most enjoyable allusion yet, in the presence of a young gardener named Philip Hathaway (Rob Callender). Although writer Russell Lewis wisely avoids any obvious explanations, it’s clear that this Hathaway is the father of a certain cool blond Inspector best known to us as the right-hand man of Morse’s future sidekick, Robbie Lewis. If the Mortmaigne name rings bells, it should: in the season four Lewis episode, The Dead of Winter, Hathaway was forced to return to the estate, which had been his childhood home as well as his father’s workplace, in the course of another murder investigation. We’ll never have the pleasure of seeing Morse and the younger Hathaway cross paths, but this is surely the next best thing." Den of Geek review: Endeavour series 3 episode 3: Prey

Re Eagle Day, after watching that episode, which was filmed in 2002, it's fun to look back at the scenes between the much younger Michael Kitchen and Anton Lesser in the 1982 BBC production of King Lear, in which they played half-brothers.
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Re: Endeavour

Postby Sunshine » Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:14 pm

Den of Geek has become quite a prominent website. Thanks for that, Lynne. :thumbsup: I love those references, too! :D

BTW, the "Prey" episode also seems to connect to the final season of "Lewis,"
(Coming up on PBS in a few weeks), in which Hathaway reconnects with his father. That's all we need - a reason to binge-watch all three series simultaneously. :lol:


And it must be an inside joke in "Eagle Day" when Foyle tells Milner, in the investigation of the art gallery, that he doesn't like the curator. :foyle5:
Just looked over the chapter on "Horse Racing and Illegal Rambling."

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Re: Endeavour

Postby Sunshine » Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:46 pm

Well, here's the next best thing to binging; a website about all three shows:


https://morseandlewisandendeavour.wordp ... is-part-2/
Just looked over the chapter on "Horse Racing and Illegal Rambling."

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Re: Endeavour

Postby Sunshine » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:25 pm

It's been a while since anyone posted about this show, and I've been delayed by a busy summer. But now that Series 5 has run on Masterpiece Mystery, did anyone happen to see the episode "Quartet?"

Ellie Haddington playing a spy.....And while she was busy warning young Detective Sergeant Morse, who else remembered Hilda Pierce's interactions with Foyle (particularly the scene in "All Clear" in which she hands Foyle the documents about Operation Tiger)? :foyle3:
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