Another puzzling question about The Hide

7: The Russian House (June '45), Killing Time (July '45), The Hide (August '45)

6: Plan of Attack (April '44); Broken Souls (October '44); All Clear (May '45)

5: Bleak Midwinter (Dec '42); Casualties of War (March '43)

4: Invasion (April '42); Bad Blood (Aug '42)

Another puzzling question about The Hide

Postby fawnie » Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:04 pm

Is anyone wondering if James “Jack” Devereaux is Foyle's son by Caroline Devereaux when she was estranged from her husband? I spose it's meant to be ambiguous. :puzzled: Such a touching moment on the beach with CF and Caroline ... and then again when he is remembering her on the beach. :'-(

"At a crucial point in Foyle's interview with James, Foyle reveals the shocking news that he knew Caroline during World War I, when as a nurse she helped him recover from wounds. They fell in love, but then she reconciled with her husband, Charles, when she became pregnant with James (by whom is not specified). "
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece/foy ... ehide.html
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Re: Another puzzling question about The Hide

Postby amiga » Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:17 pm

Some of us think yes, some no. I'm in the yes column.

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Re: Another puzzling question about The Hide

Postby Lynnedean » Sun Jun 21, 2015 6:31 pm

fawnie wrote:Is anyone wondering if James “Jack” Devereaux is Foyle's son by Caroline Devereaux when she was estranged from her husband? I spose it's meant to be ambiguous.

You're right, fawnie, it's meant to be ambiguous. Anthony Horowitz and Michael Kitchen agreed to play it that way and leave it to viewers to decide. You'll find discussion about it on the board in this thread ... Other FW People>Anthony Horowitz>Literary Event
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Re: Another puzzling question about The Hide

Postby kitchentease » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:43 am

This is a favourite debate, fawnie. I'm on the no side - even if Anthony Horowitz says yes. Can you really see a young Foyle, with his social background and ethics sleeping with another man's wife? Falling in love with her and wanting her to leave the hateful man she is married to, absolutely, but sleeping with her not in my book.
But, what does the brain matter....compared to the heart?
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Re: Another puzzling question about The Hide

Postby HarperCurls » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:59 am

I'm firmly on the fence with this one.

The fact that twenty-odd years later the emotions of 'knowing' Caroline are still with him is difficult to explain. My instinct is to say 'He wouldn't do that!' (and neither would she) but some bit of me (romantic old softie) imagines them falling in love and her being upset about something and the still vulnerable wounded Foyle comforting her and one thing leading to another and both being horrified at their actions... you see where I'm going here!

Another enigma for us obsessed fans!
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Re: Another puzzling question about The Hide

Postby hazeleyes57 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:56 am

HarperCurls wrote:
The fact that twenty-odd years later the emotions of 'knowing' Caroline are still with him is difficult to explain. My instinct is to say 'He wouldn't do that!' (and neither would she) but some bit of me (romantic old softie) imagines them falling in love and her being upset about something and the still vulnerable wounded Foyle comforting her and one thing leading to another and both being horrified at their actions... you see where I'm going here!



As AH has stated his intent, despite MK's alterations, I'm happy knowing for sure. But our beloved Christopher Foyle was not born the enigmatic, sparsely spoken, punch-throwing, moral packet of yumminess that he became. He is the sum of his experiences, and I could well imagine that a young man, already injured in battle, would be thinking about his mortality, the possibility of finding and losing love, whether or not he would ever see Caroline again and therefore be tempted to be with her. Caroline being so unhappy, in an abusive marriage, with divorce virtually an impossibility, would respond to his kindness like a dying flower to water. Foyle couldn't offer her anything - not his name, his financial support, not even his presence (he was to be sent back to fight as soon as possible), so I don't blame her for going back to her husband. The war changed many people's expectations and morality (now or never!), even if temporarily, and quite a few paid the price, one way or another. The whole business and they way it was (or was not) dealt with, would be bound to colour the rest of Foyle's life.
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Re: Another puzzling question about The Hide

Postby jewell » Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:13 pm

I'm in the "leave it ambiguous" category.

Back then, no one except the mother (and sometimes she wasn't totally sure) really knew who the father was - no Maury Povich shouting 'Christopher Foyle, you are the father!'.

On the shameless self promotion side. You could read two people's view of it: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=398 or on ff,net: https://www.fanfiction.net/s/7502763/1/The-Long-Shadow

Cheers!

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Re: Another puzzling question about The Hide

Postby mohairMK » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:55 pm

hazeleyes57 wrote:But our beloved Christopher Foyle was not born the enigmatic, sparsely spoken, punch-throwing, moral packet of yumminess that he became. He is the sum of his experiences, and I could well imagine that a young man, already injured in battle, would be thinking about his mortality, the possibility of finding and losing love, whether or not he would ever see Caroline again and therefore be tempted to be with her. Caroline being so unhappy, in an abusive marriage, with divorce virtually an impossibility, would respond to his kindness like a dying flower to water. Foyle couldn't offer her anything - not his name, his financial support, not even his presence (he was to be sent back to fight as soon as possible), so I don't blame her for going back to her husband. The war changed many people's expectations and morality (now or never!), even if temporarily, and quite a few paid the price, one way or another. The whole business and they way it was (or was not) dealt with, would be bound to colour the rest of Foyle's life.

"Christopher Foyle was not born the enigmatic, sparsely spoken, punch-throwing, moral packet of yumminess that he became"! :lol: :lol:

Very well written commentary on the situation in The Hide (obvious you are a writer!). And one I agree with. Foyle, as well as we ourselves, ARE the sum of our experiences. Caught in the situation they both were, with Caroline facing endless years ahead with a beast of a husband; and Foyle facing possible (even probable) death; were inexplicably drawn to each other. They loved; they needed. They needed some kind of hope to hold on to in worlds gone mad. Is it any wonder they wanted to hold on to each other...even for a short time?

Not knowing how long Caroline had been married before she met Christopher, she didn't have any children by her husband. Maybe he couldn't? Did she lavish such overwhelming love on "her son" Jack because she knew he sprang from the love she shared with Christopher? Didn't her husband state Jack was always "more her son than mine"?

I think Foyle's morality is innate within him. Some of the sadness we see in his eyes could be from the decisions he made throughout his life which may have conflicted with that innate sense of right and wrong. Somehow, I don't think Foyle would regret loving Caroline; but would regret not being able to help her in the years afterward. The smile Foyle gives to Jack as he leaves for America had a glimpse of satisfaction in it. "I couldn't help you, Caroline, because you made me promise. But I was able to give you justice, and help the son you loved."
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Re: Another puzzling question about The Hide

Postby NikkiB » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:35 pm

Just watched the episode "The Hide" and have read the illuminating comments above. I am in agreement with those who feel James was indeed the son of CF. I feel that in wartime, behavior isn't always what it might be at other times, & youth may have played a part. The scene where Foyle speaks about Caroline is some of the best drama I've seen yet in the series. For those who know, I have a silly question: do you know the meaning of the episode title "The Hide"? So interesting to see Andrew Scott, aka Moriarty, in such a touching role.
And, yes, it is taking me a long time to finish watching FW!
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Re: Another puzzling question about The Hide

Postby starlight » Thu Nov 12, 2015 9:42 pm

NikkiB wrote:..do you know the meaning of the episode title "The Hide"?

The "hide" was a camouflaged shelter in the Devereaux grounds where James and Caroline used to go to watch birds and other wildlife. James was in the hide when he saw his "father" murder his mother.
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