No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby Englishfan » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:02 am

FancyFoyle wrote:All except the trousers, that is. Those are etched indelibly onto my mother board.
Martha




:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby amiga » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:08 am

Aside from his Bali girls and his giggles and cuddles, he seemed just as gay as the rest of them. Was he straight pretending to be gay, or gay pretending to be straight? Do I have to watch it again?

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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby starlight » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:29 am

amiga wrote:Aside from his Bali girls and his giggles and cuddles, he seemed just as gay as the rest of them. Was he straight pretending to be gay, or gay pretending to be straight? Do I have to watch it again?

Amiga

Greedy might be one interpretation. The orientation might not matter to him. My theory.
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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby Jillybean » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:35 am

starlight wrote:
1)...For me, it was just a tale of 3 beetles fighting over a ball of dung. No more complex than that. But it went on too long. The rest was Pinter enjoying himself with the English.

2)...Can't speak for the rest of his plays, but this one felt as if the playwright was taking the mick. Honestly.

On to Jilly, who likes it.


3)...The 'c' word used by men of men bothers me less than perhaps it should. That might disappoint Pinter. As for the gayness of the characters, they all appear to be gay to me. I don't find the heterosexual references and protestations convincing. I suspect that Foster's Balinese women aren't. And I don't mean Balinese. Foster, I would say, loves to be loved, and I can't see that the sexual particularities of an encounter would


I've numbered them Starlight! How organised am I? :biggrin:

1) Excellent analogy of the premise! (Poor Ralph!) Not sure I agree that that was all the play contained - personally I thought there was so much more to it but then again I may have too much time on my hands :biggrin:

2) I get the impression that the two younger characters wanted to keep Hirst in a form of 'no man's land' existence and the feeling of life (in this case the play) was going on and on was deliberate, I was reminded of Waiting for Godot (I could be wrong).

The other plays have the same feel, most are 'one room' sets with very little daylight so there is a more intense concentration on the characters.

3) The 'c' word has always sat uncomfortably with me, no idea why, possibly the 'sound' of it (?).

It could be that the 'girls in Bali' are not quite 'girls in Bali' but I'm not sure why he is so consistent with this story throughout - maybe he's used to lying? Or he's telling the truth and people assume he's gay because of his "gait" or because he "travels incognito" and he wants to clarify the situation. Pinter probably wanted the audience to keep guessing, which I seem to do on a regular basis :D

Maybe we could have a dedicated 'Vagabond Trousers' day? Just a silly thought which I might just celebrate in the comfort of my own home :wink:
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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby amiga » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:01 am

Jillybean wrote:
starlight wrote:
3)...The 'c' word used by men of men bothers me less than perhaps it should. That might disappoint Pinter. As for the gayness of the characters, they all appear to be gay to me. I don't find the heterosexual references and protestations convincing. I suspect that Foster's Balinese women aren't. And I don't mean Balinese. Foster, I would say, loves to be loved, and I can't see that the sexual particularities of an encounter would


Maybe we could have a dedicated 'Vagabond Trousers' day? Just a silly thought which I might just celebrate in the comfort of my own home :wink:


I agree with your #3. While the the word is still jarring, it doesn't bother me as much when it's two men using it towards each other. Also agree that they all seem gay. I think Foster's character was meant to be ambiguous. As Starlight said earlier, maybe just greedy and could go either way.

As for Vagabond Trouser's ?Day, I could catch an early flight. Sounds intriguing. :lol:

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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby Jillybean » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:19 am

amiga wrote:Also agree that they all seem gay. I think Foster's character was meant to be ambiguous. As Starlight said earlier, maybe just greedy and could go either way.

As for Vagabond Trouser's ?Day, I could catch an early flight. Sounds intriguing. :lol:

Amiga


I agree that Foster is possibly bisexual, not sure about Briggs. I read somewhere (hoping it wasn't wikipedia) that Foster and Briggs may be lovers but again, it's all based on assumption.

Not sure about Spooner, being effeminate doesn't mean he's gay necessarily. He mentions he has a wife and daughters and although that doesn't mean he's not bisexual, he gives no indication elsewhere in the play that he is looking for anything other than a job with Hirst. He's clearly an intelligent chap who is down on his luck, wearing a tatty suit and collecting glasses at the Chalk Farm pub...

Right, onto the 'Vagabond Trousers' Day! Not sure how or when anyone else is celebrating but my plans consist of nothing more than watching 'MK-in-trousers' gifs on a loop, with a glass of wine...

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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby Wolesley » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:26 am

Sorry to have missed out on this erudite discussion today - (stupid work!), and living in the wrong time zone. :eyeroll:

I only have this comment, so far: from the tumblr gif, I'd say Mr. K had his lines written in Braille inside his left pocket, and perhaps wasn't only using his hand to read them.

Lesley :rofl:
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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby amiga » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:37 am

Wolesley wrote:Sorry to have missed out on this erudite discussion today - (stupid work!), and living in the wrong time zone. :eyeroll:

I only have this comment, so far: from the tumblr gif, I'd say Mr. K had his lines written in Braille inside his left pocket, and perhaps wasn't only using his hand to read them.

Lesley :rofl:


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: I am not saying another word!

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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby Englishfan » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:40 am

Lesley.....
You may have solved the confusion!!!!!! :lol:

Not to disagree with you, but.........!!!!!! :eek:

Welcome home from work!!!!!!! This is anything but work!

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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby jewell » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:19 am

Oh my!

What has been happening here?!!

I have a bit of a delicate question, though. Which “c” word are we talking about?

Men calling other men this word? Not as offensive? Then I take it we’re talking about the “c” word associated with male chickens, not the other, very offensive, word.?? Cannot watch it again to find out for myself, can not.

I watched this putrid play several years ago (I believe I commented about it on the old board – so it was a while back) and I don’t remember it being exceptionally profane. Then again, I spent 6 years in the Navy so sometimes profane doesn’t sink in.

As for No Man’s Pants, while these are nice and, uh, filled out, I much prefer his trousers in Wilderness just after the dinner scene. Post that, Starlight! But maybe on another thread. This one seems to be devoted to Vagabond Trousers. Which is good.

Fascinating afternoon! The most enjoyment I will ever get out of a Pinter play.

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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby Jillybean » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:30 am

jewell wrote:
Men calling other men this word? Not as offensive? Then I take it we’re talking about the “c” word associated with male chickens, not the other, very offensive, word.?

As for No Man’s Pants, while these are nice and, uh, filled out, I much prefer his trousers in Wilderness just after the dinner scene. Post that, Starlight!

Jewell


Lol not the chicken word, the other...

Did you mean this scene? If so Starlight is gonna have a blast working on that gif :wink:

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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby BookwormKate » Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:56 am

With life getting in the way, I've missed out on this conversation! I watched NML many years ago, and although I quite like Pinter's other plays, this one I did skip some bits to just see MK (and the trousers!). It intrigued me enough to seek out Pinter's other work.
While he does repeat himself almost to oblivion in most of his plays, and there is a lot of "hang on, what just happened?", his dialogue can be fun and certainly has many layers. Last year I went to see a series of Pinter's one act plays (of which The Dumbwaiter was my favourite), and they were much easier to swallow.

It would be so interesting to see MK in a play nowadays! We can only hope!

I'd say Mr. K had his lines written in Braille inside his left pocket

Spot on observation, Lesley! :rofl:
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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby Sunshine » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:29 am

Wow! Quite a discussion going! :biggrin:

BTW, the only thing I've got to add is that NML included a very rare circumstance of MK crossing the Atlantic to work in the U.S.

I've always wondered whether he'd want to do the play again now, either as Spooner or Hirst.
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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby starlight » Wed Jan 22, 2014 11:55 am

Sunshine wrote:BTW, the only thing I've got to add is that NML included a very rare circumstance of MK crossing the Atlantic to work in the U.S.

I've always wondered whether he'd want to do the play again now, either as Spooner or Hirst.

Yes it was on Broadway, wasn't it? Wikipedia says October to December 1976.

Spooner or Hirst? Hmm. I think he already gave generously. Must be somebody else's turn. :brickwall:
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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby jewell » Wed Jan 22, 2014 12:49 pm

Thanks Jilly!

Damn, Now I may have to watch some - a little - just to see how they are using this word. I'm afraid I would still find it offensive even if used by men of men. It's still an insult, denigrating women.

And yes, those are the trousers! :whistling:

Jewell

(Suppose I must chastise myself for denigrating - making a sex object of - men. Naaah! Getting some back!)
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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby starlight » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:11 pm

jewell wrote:Damn, Now I may have to watch some - a little - just to see how they are using this word. I'm afraid I would still find it offensive even if used by men of men. It's still an insult, denigrating women.

Jewell - Then you only need to watch the last half hour so you can revel in a bucket-load of Anglo-Saxon, seemingly shovelled in for effect.

Start watching at 16:32 where Hirst says:
Oh come, come! Be sociable. Consort with the society to which you are attached. Attached, as it were with bonds of steel...

{or is it buns? - I like to think it's buns of steel myself. Fnarr!}

Then it starts getting really fruity around 19:39. Briggs is chief potty-mouth, and his twenty-second tirade makes the "c" word he offered up earlier sound like a term of endearment. :eyeroll:

(Occurs to me I said I wasn't going to watch it again, but here I am, one day later...)
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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby ayresorchids » Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:48 pm

starlight wrote:
Sunshine wrote:BTW, the only thing I've got to add is that NML included a very rare circumstance of MK crossing the Atlantic to work in the U.S.

I've always wondered whether he'd want to do the play again now, either as Spooner or Hirst.

Yes it was on Broadway, wasn't it? Wikipedia says October to December 1976.

Spooner or Hirst? Hmm. I think he already gave generously. Must be somebody else's turn. :brickwall:



I know from seeing a theatre program that he was here at The Kennedy Center in Washington, D.C. in November and December of '76. And we moved back to the area the following month! (Not that I had any awareness of MK until Out of Africa many years later, and even that I somehow didn't retain. I also enjoyed Enchanted April when it was first released, without becoming obsessed. Twas Foyle who made that happen, I must conclude.)
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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby dcfoylefan » Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:24 pm

MK at the Kennedy center. Sigh. That would have been nice. Hope you are staying warm Chris.

I'm home again with my unruly brood for another snow day. It seems clear I'm not getting any real work done today between giggling at this conversation and snowman building.

Come to think of it, life is pretty good. Thanks for the laughs ladies!

Vagabond trousers. Hee.
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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby Englishfan » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:21 pm

Jillybean!

My husband just walked behind me as I was enjoying your post. And he thought I liked Mr. Kitchen's acting ONLY!!! :rofl:

And, let's face it, Mr. Kitchen knew exactly what he was wearing/doing when he did that and in other scenes in many shows. Like we have seen in his acting, so much more is "said" without words and who knows what words he eliminated here in lieu of these trousers!!!!! :obsessed:

Englishfan

(anyone using those trousers for their photo icon on the forum?! :waiting: )
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Re: No Man's Land - "The Skinny"

Postby starlight » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:38 pm

Englishfan wrote:(anyone using those trousers for their photo icon on the forum?! :waiting: )

Here's a smorgasbord.
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